tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519292617097628087.post8656064528785846087..comments2024-01-02T16:09:12.886-07:00Comments on Chinleana: Smok wawelski, a New Late Triassic Archosaur from PolandBill Parkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05941940882532354219noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519292617097628087.post-10620252838809929312013-12-27T01:40:19.484-07:002013-12-27T01:40:19.484-07:00nteresting critter if all the material belongs to ...nteresting critter if all the material belongs to the same animal (and I can't see any reason right now why it wouldn't). The broadly expanded basisphenoid appears to be particularily autapomorphic. <a href="http://www.thunderheadvapor.com/" rel="nofollow">evod starter kit</a><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10672055622764738047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519292617097628087.post-25177016538853717872011-08-18T15:26:40.254-07:002011-08-18T15:26:40.254-07:00Karl Zimmerman: Still, I wonder if the herrerasaur...Karl Zimmerman: <i>Still, I wonder if the herrerasaur-style reconstruction is a hint at what Niedźwiedzki's phylogenic analysis of Smok will show.</i> - I don't think so. This reconstruction is published in popular media and scientific papers (e.g. Dzik et al. 2008, APP) since 2008, when the dinosaurian status of <i>Smok</i> seemed to be unquestionable (then it was suggested that it might be even a tetanuran).Tomasz Skawińskihttp://forum.dinozaury.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519292617097628087.post-9674111933212900482011-08-18T09:33:48.111-07:002011-08-18T09:33:48.111-07:00I second Steve's call for restraint. As I note...I second Steve's call for restraint. As I noted in the original post the paper clearly states that the phylogenetic relationships are part of an ongoing PhD project.<br /><br />I'm also glad to see that Hans agrees with my derived paracrocodylomorph bet...Bill Parkernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519292617097628087.post-32504377673114386622011-08-18T09:05:33.696-07:002011-08-18T09:05:33.696-07:00It's great to see Smok published. The specimen...It's great to see Smok published. The specimen is clearly one of the most important recent vertebrate discoveries from the European Triassic. And, I suspect continuing and lively debate over the anatomy and phylogeny of Smok as more work is done on the specimen. This is, after all, a short preliminary description.<br /><br />There have been some suggestions here and elsewhere that somebody should add Smok to Nesbitt's excellent basal archosaur cladistic matrix. Please, I would encourage everyone to hold back and let the research on Smok run its course. It is clear from the paper that Grzegorz Niedzwiedzki is working on the phylogeny of Smok as part of his thesis, and I do happen to know that cladistics will play a part in this. If anybody does add Smok to a phylogenetic analysis and posts this on a blog or elsewhere online, then this could jeopardize Grzegorz's thesis. So, I would encourage some patience and restraint.Steve Brusattehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00625261934625494952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519292617097628087.post-3425272982897173082011-08-18T08:31:30.412-07:002011-08-18T08:31:30.412-07:00I see what you guys mean now, having read the pape...I see what you guys mean now, having read the paper. I assumed looking at the reconstruction, that every bone/fragment not shown in black was in fact intact, but it looks as though some portions (particularly the skull and hips). are far more fragmentary than the reconstruction would suggest. <br /><br />Still, I wonder if the herrerasaur-style reconstruction is a hint at what Niedźwiedzki's phylogenic analysis of Smok will show.Karl Zimmermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11141706877708859363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519292617097628087.post-37323719679304654102011-08-18T08:09:00.279-07:002011-08-18T08:09:00.279-07:00There is no formal requirement regarding the corre...There is no formal requirement regarding the correct formation of the specific epithet in a particular language. Few people know the classical languages to do this correctly nowadays. As Leszek noted the name is correctly formed in Polish.<br /><br />It would be useful to see the new taxon added to the Nesbitt data matrix. It is very unlikely that the Polish workers will do so as they come from a tradition that is opposed to cladistic methodology. Smok is not a dinosaur but rather a derived paracrocodylomorph.Hans Sueshttp://www.nmnh.si.edunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519292617097628087.post-90771509291168496212011-08-18T04:34:05.540-07:002011-08-18T04:34:05.540-07:00Polish genitive -ski
No, it's a masculine adj...<i>Polish genitive -ski</i><br /><br />No, it's a masculine adjective-forming suffix. The masculine genitive is -a.<br /><br /><i>I think the Herrerasaur-like body plan is due to the fact that the 'completeness' or whatever is basically redone over an older skeletal reconstruction of Herrerasaurus.</i><br /><br />Exactly. I don't know if Grzegorz still maintains that it's a dinosaur, but for a long time he did, even while other people were saying it's a rauisuchian.David Marjanovićnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519292617097628087.post-12587413473885182722011-08-17T21:03:48.160-07:002011-08-17T21:03:48.160-07:00Thanks for the info/comments everyone.Thanks for the info/comments everyone.Bill Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05941940882532354219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519292617097628087.post-79597825615653542872011-08-17T08:10:41.673-07:002011-08-17T08:10:41.673-07:00I think the Herrerasaur-like body plan is due to t...I think the Herrerasaur-like body plan is due to the fact that the 'completeness' or whatever is basically redone over an older skeletal reconstruction of Herrerasaurus. If it was superimposed over a generic rauisuchian bodyplan, would you still think it looked Herrerasaurus like?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519292617097628087.post-48927862635418348832011-08-17T06:46:06.097-07:002011-08-17T06:46:06.097-07:00The Polish name "smok" (as well as its a...The Polish name "smok" (as well as its analogues in other Slavic languages) may be derived from the preslavic "sъmъkъ", which meaning is roughly equivalent to the Germanic "smaugan" ("slide", "slip through" or something like that).Tomasz Skawińskihttp://forum.dinozaury.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519292617097628087.post-49420917456055137622011-08-17T06:41:05.632-07:002011-08-17T06:41:05.632-07:00The "Smok Wawelski" is a creature from P...The "Smok Wawelski" is a creature from Polish folklore. "Smok Wawelski" is exactly how you would call the creature while speaking Polish. The name seems to be entirely Polish rather than Latin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519292617097628087.post-57120160122969200272011-08-17T06:15:28.014-07:002011-08-17T06:15:28.014-07:00I was wondering the same thing as Jaime.I was wondering the same thing as Jaime.Mike Keeseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00147156174467903264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519292617097628087.post-73815743216772322812011-08-17T04:27:58.950-07:002011-08-17T04:27:58.950-07:00Mind you, I haven't seen the paper, and I'...Mind you, I haven't seen the paper, and I'm not a professional, but the post-cranial reconstruction looks extremely like a herrerasaur. Some of that appears to be missing bones they inferred (such as the manus), but the pubis seems semi-retroverted as in Hererrasaurus. <br /><br />That said, the skull doesn't look particularly herrerasauran at all.Karl Zimmermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11141706877708859363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519292617097628087.post-68863116066236575372011-08-17T01:44:40.935-07:002011-08-17T01:44:40.935-07:00I would rather say "Dragon of Wawel" - h...I would rather say "Dragon of Wawel" - he was kind of a ruler of the Wawel Hill<br />(or simply Wawel Dragon - like in wikipedia).<br /><br />By the way - for english speaking - wawel is pronunciated vavel (a like in arm)Arek W.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519292617097628087.post-73816337006271475562011-08-17T01:10:47.787-07:002011-08-17T01:10:47.787-07:00"Wawel," in this case, is also short-han..."Wawel," in this case, is also short-hand for "Wawel Hill." It is not always necessary to completely transcribe the name of a place. I am actually more surprised that a Polish genitive -ski is being used in lieu of the Latin -ensis.<br /><br />What is perhaps more interesting, though, is the "genus." "Smok" is awfully similar to Tolkein's "Smaug," although the origins may differ: in Tolkein's case, he derived the work from the Germanic smugan "slide through a hole" while nodding to O.English smeag "worm," (the basis for Smeágol). I wonder if they are otherwise related.<br /><br />Even better, the whole name is a lift and drop from a name given to a legend of the area, the Smok Wawelski: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wawel_Dragon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519292617097628087.post-16387211551355211112011-08-17T00:22:07.468-07:002011-08-17T00:22:07.468-07:00In Polish, Wawelski would translate roughly as &qu...In Polish, Wawelski would translate roughly as "of Wawel", or "from Wawel". And "smok" means "dragon". So, "dragon from Wawel".Leszek Pawlowiczhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08474150688965942390noreply@blogger.com